Talk:Michael Jordan

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Dyson, M. E. (1993). Be like Mike?: Michael Jordan and the pedagogy of desire. Cultural Studies, 7(1), 64–72.
Mathur, Lynette Knowles, et al. "The wealth effects associated with a celebrity endorser: The Michael Jordan phenomenon." Journal of Advertising Research, vol. 37, no. 3, May-June 1997, pp. 67+. Gale Academic OneFile.

Comment: This search yields eight additional articles in the Sociology of Sport Journal about Michael Jordan.

MVP and DPOY

In the "Pistons Roadblock" section, it reads: "Jordan again led the league in scoring during the 1987–88 season, averaging 35.0 ppg on 53.5% shooting,[40] and he won his first league MVP Award. He was also named the NBA Defensive Player of the Year...". A seemingly important detail left out was that this was the first time a player won both MVP and DPOY in the same season in NBA history (and has only, as of 2022, been repeated twice). I don't have permissions to edit this page, but could this detail be added? https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/players-named-mvp-and-dpoy-in-same-season

Greatest player

There's discussion at Talk:Wilt Chamberlain § RfC: Can Wilt Chamberlain be called the greatest player of all-time? about the suitability of NBA.com's statement in Jordan's lead: By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time.

If something like this were to stay in the lead, we should be looking for mainstream sources that assess that he is "widely considered" the greatest, if he still even is. A fair cutoff might be sources leading up to James becoming the all-time leading scorer (or after). Here's some sources I've found:

"Now, he’s widely regarded as the greatest basketball player of all-time." USA Today. May 7, 2024.
"Widely considered the greatest basketball player of all time, Michael Jordan won six NBA titles with the Chicago Bulls and is an icon in both sports and business." Forbes.com. December 20, 2024,
"Michael Jordan is widely considered to be the greatest basketball player of all time." USA Basketball. November 25, 2015.
"There aren’t many stars who can boast about besting Michael Jordan, widely regarded as the greatest of all time by most basketball fans." Hoops Hype. November 9, 2024.
"While Michael Jordan won the “Greatest of All Time” category for the third consecutive time, his once-massive lead over LeBron James has shrunk significantly with every passing poll." The Athletic. April 23, 2024.

—Bagumba (talk) 10:05, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Don't think USA Basketball is an independent source since it's a sports governing body and being published in 2015 makes it outdated for considering LeBron. Is Hoops Hype reliable? Another caveat about that source is that it attributes the claim to "most basketball fans" rather than making an authoritative statement in its own voice, or at least attributing it to scholarship rather than fans. The second-to-last paragraph of WP:WEIGHT says (emphasis mine)

Keep in mind that, in determining proper weight, we consider a viewpoint's prevalence in reliable sources, not its prevalence among Wikipedia editors or the general public.

Though I suppose if that source is reliable, it might be usable to support something like "most basketball fans consider Jordan the greatest player of all-time". Left guide (talk) 08:19, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Good that someone looked at the sources, let alone their publication dates. —Bagumba (talk) 07:15, 16 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If someone is considered by most experts, fans and players as the greatest of all time, then it is neutral to say he is widely considered to be the greatest according to Wikipedia's guidelines. Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#:~:text=All encyclopedic content on Wikipedia,reliable sources on a topic. Orlando Davis (talk) 00:40, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's a problem that multiple NBA players have Wikipedia's that quote that experts have called them the greatest. All of those articles are neutral if they note what experts from reliable sources have said. In fact, not adequately noting recognition could be a lack of neutrality due to leaving out critical information. Orlando Davis (talk) 01:00, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For Jordan, he hasn't just been called the greatest by some experts. He is still widely considered to be the greatest because he wins every poll of writers, fans, and players. Orlando Davis (talk) 01:09, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

But not in the lead since it's a very subjective accolade. This is under discussion at the NBA Project. Fyunck(click) (talk) 03:59, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of discussion relating to this page

Due to recent edits, there's nothing relevant to inline tag in the lead, so this is a notice that there is a discussion at WT:NBA#Discussion on allowing "greatest" in the lead of all NBA players which pertains to this article. Left guide (talk) 08:30, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Specifically, the edit removing His profile on the NBA website states, "By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time."[1] —Bagumba (talk) 08:36, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

POV lead tag

{{POV lead}} tag added due to pushback at WT:NBA over recent removals. Willing to remove the tag once a consensus is reached on how to treat "greatest" claims in the lead for this article. Left guide (talk) 07:57, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]